Monitors

[Mike Hollingshead]

Guessing for most this will be a silly thread/non-issue. Could prove useful for some of the photogs out there.

I've come to the realization that calibrating my monitor's colors works, but at the same time, my shadows become hosed. Leave it uncalibrated for colors(using a spyder) and I can see shadows rather well and highlights. It's just amazing how much worse that gets once colors are adjusted. Brightness is now set even higher than before and it's still worse with shadows than uncalibrated and a darker brightness setting. The monitor is a gateway 2000 around 10 years old now lol...so I'm not shocked or anything.

I have no more room on brightness or contrast, so I just have to replace it finally. Here is one lesson learned today. If you want an LCD that does not change lightness depending on the angle you look at it, find out if the LCD panel is a S-IPS type. This doesn't prove terribly easy since they don't like to list it in the specs! Have to dig around on sites that tried to get a list going. They don't seem to be too cheap, dell has a decent one for $400-$500. Getting the regular TN type chepos just is not an option, since the lightness/contrast changes so drastically depending on the angle you look at it.

But of course even these "cheaper" $400-$500 ones then lack in more areas like gamut range. So do you spend that much to stop $400 or more short of something that has the wide gamut? Anything electronic seems to love to follow this "rule". I'm driving myself nuts today and think monitors may indeed be the worst electronic device to choose on a budget(at least when planning to do photo work with the thing).

Pondered just getting a cheap CRT somewhere but don't know if that is a good idea. I'm fairly open to something between $400 and $1000 but really don't want to "fall short" while spending that kind of money on one. The conclusion I think I'm starting to see is either get a cheap CRT somewhere or spend $1000+ for professional monitor(that's going to take some sales however!). And even in those I'm not totally sure what is important to look for.

CRT grade gamut apparently is the same as 70% adobe rgb gamut...think it was something like that...same as NTSC gamut. Some higher up ones are listing 92% adobe rgb gamut. Some were listing greater than 100%. Others weren't listing that at all and only saying 16.7 million colors. Those I didn't get because that is just 256x256x256(24 bit/8bit per r/g/b)...something even cheap ones list. Not sure why that expensive brand was listing it that way and no gamut lingo. Response time and size aren't terribly important to me.

Umscheid if you read this, what one did you end up getting? Saw in an older thread about calibrating you mentioned an eizo. I'm pondering pretty much every brand and every price range lol...whether I can afford it or not. In a way I have zero choice. Should have done this long ago. McGinnis what do they mostly use where you work? Anyone else have any better one they want to plug?

In the end I could likely get by with a cheap CRT, but think I should take the plunge for a pro one now and get it over with.

Here is a good page of info for anyone needing a new monitor they plan to edit photos with. http://www.clarkvision.com/photoinfo/choosing_an_LCD_monitor/

Finding a good list of S-IPS lcd panel types that is current with prices isn't seeming too easy. It's really annoying this isn't listed readily on spec sheets where you buy monitors online. Probably because most don't use it and don't need people to know.

 

[Mark Blue]

H,

I am by no means at any level even in the ballpark with you when it comes to photography, so I'll admit that up front. I do however read and subscribe to several high end computer magazines and this is the monitor Maximum PC recommends as the "Best of the Best": http://www.maximumpc.com/article/gateway_xhd3000

It's been at the top of their list for quite some time and it's a big honkin' 30" flat panel, so it would give you plenty of real estate to do your work. I haven't dug into the specs you're looking for, but I figure I'd throw this out as I trust anything these guys recommend as a top end product. It's at the top of your price range, so that's a definite draw back. Have fun shopping I wish I were you!

Mark

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Thanks Mark. That one reminds me of another issue I read. Sounds like if you get into the HUGE res larger ones not a lot of video cards will support/handle them. So bigger res might be a drawback too, to a point. I don't know all the ins and outs of those aspects though either.

This isn't really a fun sort of shopping btw, lol. It's more of a damn I'm already in the hole(far) but the car needs a new transmission to run sort of thing. If I don't just get a cheap CRT and go the other direction, it will certainly be a big fat close your eyes and push the submit button, before putting the just about maxed card back in the wallet.

Seems as far as price goes it takes $800 to $1200 to get into the nice professional line ones(or maybe low end pro ones is a better set of words). I am pretty certain I'll not be going over the $1200 deal no matter what, as that seems a bit much. But at the same time it's sort of silly for me to keep messing around on this monitor after never spending a cent on a monitor all these years.

I found this one kind of humorous...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/576163-REG/Sharp_LB_1085_LB_1085_108_LCD_Monitor.html

You know it is too big when it requires 240V to run the TV. That or the thing weighs 450 lbs. Lovely price tag. But hey, you get free shipping!

I really hope I can come to my senses and realize I don't need something more than a cheap CRT. That would be nice.

This is the one I wondered about the longest...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/602072-REG/NEC_P221W_BK_MultiSync_P221W_BK_22_Widescreen.html

96% adobe gamut. I just wonder if it has the S-IPS thing and doesn't change lightness depending on viewing angle. The picture they use on the screen for that is not doing it any favors lol(but maybe it's just my screen lol). That has been the cheapest one I've seen that at least lists the wide gamut. Taking a wild guess it is the TN panel type though. Always something.

 

[Mark Blue]

The price tag on the one you linked was crazy high. I didn't know an LCD monitor could get that big or expensive. I like the review on the B&H site, some joker plays Wii bowling with that behemuth. I wonder what he'd do if he accidentally threw his hand remote into the screen of that one?!? That NEC one you like looks pretty nice and they make quality products, so there's nothing wrong with that one.

The more you talk about a CRT the more I'm wondering if that wouldn't be the way to go for you knowing what you're going to do with it. You know with LCD monitors any angle other than looking at it from 90 degrees or straight on reduces the sharpness and quality of the image being displayed. LCDs don't reproduce blacks as well as CRTs either. The CRT technology is so mature and the image it displays is still about as good as it gets. I haven't shopped for one lately so I'm not sure about availability, but I'm sure one could be had if you really wanted one.

I just did a little research for you and it only took like 5 minutes as I pegged the time frame pretty closely. I looked back through my Maximum PC magazines (I have a collection going back to 2003) and found that they recommended the NEC FE21111 SB model as the "Best of the Best" before they dropped the CRT section from the column due to waning interest. It was last published in the October 2005 version of their magazine. You can check it out here on page 39 of 58 of the .pdf file or page 63 if you're looking at the magazine page numbers on the right hand side of the page: http://dl.maximumpc.com/Archives/MPC1005-web.pdf. I actually remember them raving about that CRT model for over a year when it was at the top of their list. Maybe you could find one on eBay or some mom and pop computer store in Chanute KS for example.

I've always been a fan of the Viewsonic LCD flat panels and have owned two for the last several years. Believe it or not, Dells also rate really high in most reviews I've read. One question I had is what are you going to connect it to your laptop or do you have a PC? I think as long as you have a dedicated graphics card you should be okay, but I'd bet you do with the post you put up the other day about 8, 10, and higher bit color reproduction.

Dude, if you need a new trans in your ride you better go the CRT route and save some dineros. I don't want you to be eating PBJs for the next year if you know what I mean?

 

[Rob Wadsworth]

I've owned my ViewSonic for less than two years, amd it is -by far - the best monitor that I've owned. I've owned quite a few monitors and computers in the 10 years. I'm not saying that it will fill your high end needs for great photo work, but one must remember that is how a lot of people view your work.

Mark B is correct about the best monitor.
If you are looking into a high-end CRT on the other hand; well that may be a bit tough. I don't know of any mfr that is currently making them. There may be, but I'm not aware of who that may be. Video cards built along the lines of CAD design usage may be what you are looking for. Gaming cards are made for framing fast; but will probably work fine.

BTW-What's wrong with your transmission? Automatic or stick?

 

[Aaron Kennedy]

Kinda wish I didn't give my CRT away as it didn't have the angle issue of my cheap Samsung LCD. I just shift my head a bunch and estimate. So far the prints seem ok. Color calibration always seems weird for me when it's a *slight* change. My left and right eye see slightly differnet colors. Which one is correct? Beats me!

Have you looked at any LaCie or Eizo monitors? I thought those 2 were the defacto standards for professional use.

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

McGinnis what do they mostly use where you work?

We use only CRTs for color correciton work. Right now we're using a pair of Mitsubishi Diamond Plus 100E. They're a bit long in the tooth -- I have no idea what they'll get when these blow up, but I'm sure it'll be another set of CRTs. LCDs that work well for color correction are incredibly expensive (at least a couple grand), whereas you can get CRTs that work well for color correction for a few hundred bucks.

 

[Billy Griffin]

Go with a Sony Trinitron !!! Tried and true for broadcast and professional applications for years. Just my two cents.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Thanks for the thoughts. I did a bunch of looking and reading the last couple days and think I came to the conclusion this is the best bang for the buck for what I'd be doing.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_lp2475w.htm

IPS panel tech so it doesn't change lightness/contrast from the angle one is looking at it. 92% NTSC gamut which is considered widened gamut, greater than CRT grade which is 72%. It also had great black depth, but now that I re-read that part it doesn't sound like the same one I read before...sigh. $545 for a 24 inch LCD that doesn't change lightness on angle and has all the other aspecs seems like a good buy. I swear though the one part on blacks I read said it was the best they tested and something about it beating their eizo in dipcting all the shade differences.

Rob, nothing is wrong with the transmission, I was just comparing a big buy(bigger than this $545 anyway). I should probably try and find one of the OLED based LCDs since they have the even wider color gamut and don't have the back lighting issue, but these seem to be all the big price ones.