May 31st - Record Snow Today In Hartford...thumbs down for climo

beaudodson

beaudodson

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RECORD EVENT REPORT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE TAUNTON MA
210 AM EDT SUN JUN 1 2008

...RECORD DAILY MAXIMUM SNOWFALL SET AT HARTFORD...

FROM 655 PM UNTIL 701 PM...BRADLEY INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT IN WINDSOR
LOCKS REPORTED HAIL WHICH FELL FROM A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM. THE HAIL
MEASURED 1/2 INCH IN DIAMETER.

FOR CLIMATOLOGICAL PURPOSES...THE HAIL THAT FELL IS CONSIDERED A
SNOWFALL MEASUREMENT...WHICH WAS ONLY A TRACE ON THE GROUND. THIS
TIES A SNOWFALL RECORD FOR MAY 31. A TRACE OF SNOW WAS ALSO RECORDED
ON MAY 31 1917. RECORDS IN THE HARTFORD AREA BEGAN IN 1905.

A WIND GUST OF 69 MPH WAS ALSO REPORTED FROM THIS THUNDERSTORM AT
649 PM.

$$

VALLIER-TALBOT

---------

Snow=hail? No. According to the "official" way records are kept though - hail goes down as snow. I cry foul.


lipstickpig.jpg
 
No big deal, just consider that column "frozen precip." In the winter - it's snow, in the summer - it's hail.
 
I disagree. It is a big deal for climo. If someone reads, without the rest of the data, that it snowed in June - then it snowed in June. There have been years with extremely late or early snowfall.

It goes down as snow. Hail isn't snow. A snowfall record broken today? I think not.

"...RECORD DAILY MAXIMUM SNOWFALL SET AT HARTFORD..."

Misleading for anyone going through the record books. I have record books that go back hundreds of years - should we question all entry points that mention snow? Someone said it really didn't snow in 1917 either. Snow or hail - apparently.

The policy should be changed. Filling out a "Max Snowfall Record" report should be just that - max SNOWFALL.
 
That's the most disturbing picture I've seen in a while, and I've seen plenty of disturbing pictures on the 'net. :D
 
beaudodson said:
The policy should be changed. Filling out a "Max Snowfall Record" report should be just that - max SNOWFALL.
Click to expand...

I agree -- that is ridiculous. Every time hail falls at a record-keeping NWS site, then, technically, at least a "trace" snow should be reported. I can't imagine that this is the official NWS policy. If it is, then how many times has it "snowed" in July in Kansas City? Why would such a policy (hail = snow) be in place?
 
Has to be at the observation point. It's been this way for decades -- check the FMH-1.

I don't think people look at the records and say "80 degrees with snow -- must be global warming!" At least they haven't so far :) as this has been how records have been kept for a LOOONNG time.

From James Erickson:

According to Federal Metrological Handbook No. 1 (FHM1) page A9 "snow depth.
The vertical height of frozen precipitation on the ground. For this purpose,
frozen precipitation includes ice pellets, glaze, hail, any combination of
these, and sheet ice formed directly or indirectly from precipitation."



From Ray Martin:

http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/documentlibrary/tddoc/td3210.pdf

Page 8
SNOW

Daily Snowfall. Hail is included with snowfall from July 1948 to December 1955 and from May 1989 to the present. Effective April 1970, amount includes sleet/ice pellets.
 
Wow this needs to get changed. Recording hail as snowfall is ridiculous as hail is in no way related to winter weather events. In fact, you would not see hail in a winter time event unless something crazy is occurring yielding insanely cold mid-level temps.
 
Good comments on EasternUSwx concerning this topic

Quote

"I asked that same question. In the LCDs you can get from NCDC, the 30 year snowfall normals
are available for each NWS climate station. An amount is given for each month, but that's it.
There is no indication if an amount was snow or hail (not F6 format). I am not sure about more
recent LCDs. These are the green covered books I got from NCDC in the mid 1990s, and I noted that
starting in 1989, "T" for snowfalls start showing up at stations in the summer months.
So an event like the below, albeit rare, could significantly alter a total snowfall for a winter.

STAFF SUNDAY REPUBLICAN Springfield, MA Date: June 28, 1992
Up to 3 feet of hail fell in parts of Holyoke, several people were injured by heavy winds in Charlemont, and
lightning strikes caused a power failure at Westover Air Force Base and a garage fire in Springfield during a
sudden and violent storm that hit...

Main thing is to the general public. Everyone wants to know how much snow we got in a given season.
Are they going to understand the "frozen" precip concept? A lot of hail would significantly skew
a true snowfall total for a winter season. Sleet is one thing b/c it is winter precip and reflects the "cold"
season, and I have no issue w/ (it has been included for 38 years straight years now). It is a given snowfall
measuring is an inexact science and loaded w/ inconsistencies due to observing methods of the public/spotters.
That won't change.

But for hail it is different, occurring the vast majority of the time outside the winter season, and is common in places
that don't see much snow. Even in temperate climates, give the heightened awareness of "extremes" these days, it
is significant. For instance, in the immediate BOS area, a trace of snow or sleet in May is rather rare. IIRC, GTF has
several inches of snow in August 1992 about the same time Andrew made landfall in FL. They never had a flake in
August before, let alone have it accumulate. In the both above months as examples, significant hail falls could occur.
So getting back to the monthly snowfall (frozen) totals in the LCDs, there needs to be some sort of separation."

http://www.easternuswx.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=165662&st=20&start=20
 
Since I grew up in Connecticut, I guess I've seen it snow in July and August there after all. Latest actual snow I saw was during the first week of May in the late 70s.
 
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