Important RE: Klingons - Bad news in Gulfport

[Warren Faidley]

Hello everyone:

Had a major problem in Gulfport.

Several chasers were using GPS mapping location devices, networks, etc., in which their precise locations were being displayed on Internet sites. This DOES NOT apply to the handful of chasers who showed up and were very responsible and professional.

The location disclosures (both on the mapping sites and via posts) prompted a multitude of irresponsible people (I will not call them chasers) to show up at the parking garage in downtown Gulfport. Between yelling, trash, broken beer bottles and other problems, I was informed after the event by LEO, that the parking garages in Gulfport will now be closed to all entry in future hurricanes. None the less, this is a serious blow.

If such restrictions continue (and spread) we will no longer have access to the best (and safest) locations for intercepting hurricanes. In addition, the posting of such information may entice locals to set-up shop in the garages all over, which may not be a safe idea. (E.g., seeking shelter under highway underpasses).

My suggestion would be to not discuss exact locations except in off-line emails between each other, or ban listing locations in posts for public safety. In addition, I know it's cool to have your location appear on Internet tracking sites, but this is only encouraging non-chasers and a host of Klingons to tag along. I suggest turning these devices off when staying at a sensitive, fixed location.

I want to clarify that I am not making a personal statement against chasing in any way as I fully support anyone's freedom to chase in a responsible manner, but this specific issue has become a serious problem for discussion. I'm not sure how this relates to tornado chasing, but I'm sure tracking devices will be an issue with that also.

Thanks:

Warren

 

[Jason Foster]

yes, much discussion needed.

Interestingly, the garage at Houma, LA at the hospital was gated closed, although a TV crew somehow managed to gain access (I'll reserve my suspicions so as not to gain an "infraction"...lol). The adjacent garage was being used by Law enforcement to park vehicles there and other equipment, so access was limited (or restricted).

It is a problem, and all chasers need to evaluate the public reaction to our presence. Like Warren stated, its something that needs to be discussed, but we are in no way telling people how to chase. My future chase plans include going more low key. No more big stickers and weather equipment on top. No lightsbars, etc. (had to throw that one in there).

I will say....not in detail for the exact reason of public access, that my experience with Law Enforcement during this storm was absolutely awesome. I highly respect those LEA throughout the southern areas of Louisiana for both their service during those storms and the respect they gave me and the team I was with.

 

[Brandon Ivey]

I will also add that the law enforcement in Houma, LA was awesome. We did get stopped/checked out by about a dozen different LEO's Sunday night into Monday morning. All were really nice and polite. A couple asked for media credentials, while others just stopped to chat for a while.

I am sorry to hear about the parking garage issue. I have never used a parking garage to document a hurricane from, but I can see that what happened in Gulfport is not good news at all. I may need the extra shelter if I get into a cat. 4 or 5 someday.

 

[Johnathan Brouwer]

Warren,

I was not in the situation you were in nor have I been in a similar situation in a hurricane NOR do I fully know the extent of your discussion with the Law Enforcement Officer. The comments and suggestion you pose invoke me to respond.

I question if these yahoos were just opportunists? Maybe they found a solid looking structure to hang in? VS. Chasers knowing the safety reason to aqueous to one... My first question in this discussion- Is it specifically known that they used a public GPS location broadcast to "hunt" down where the "chasers" are and were chasers also located in that structure? If the answer is YES, and if these people were causing the many problems then if possible, I would have mentioned it to the first LEO I came upon and put an end to it right away, and repositioned. If the answer is NO, then it was the environment and unfortunate circumstances that brought the chasers and yahoos together in one location. If, in your discussion with the LEO, he or she was making a general statement about a group of individuals acting irresponsibly then we have just seen us weather enthusiasts being effected by a bunch idiots acting that way. I feel that any actual or perceived irresponsible activity we weather enthusiasts allow the public to view puts us at additional risk of being targeted. This not only includes our actions but the action of others around us.

I am aware of only one site that allows (by permission) the GPS coordinates published out to the web. Even with that, you can choose what information is broadcast to the public. The position might still be published, but no personal information is broadcast. I know that the purpose of GPS sites are for more accurate location reporting of weather and a more efficient way to allow the NWS office to locate and communicate to the chasers BUT we cannot stop using it for the purpose of not letting the yahoos to hunt us down. In my opinion, the positives far outweighs negatives. The GPS serves 2 distinct purposes: 1) To assist the NWS do their jobs better and get the warnings out to the public and 2) The GPS allows us chasers to see each other, to allow the nowcasters to keep an eye on us and to have a better situational awareness of our surroundings. The position reporting can also help to find each other if we get into trouble.

The bottom line is, no matter how we are found: be it our rugged trucks and vans with cages on the windows, the multiple antennas of the roof, the graphics and lights or the GPS position… we still have the responsibility to chase safe. If a chaser chooses to have a public GPS position, then they need to know the risks associated with it.

Personally, I choose to have my coordinates out there. I make sure I am registered with the NWS regions that I will be traveling into. I feel the risks of being “foundâ€￾ are far overshadowed of the bigger purpose of public safety thru situational awareness and a stronger ground truth.

 

[ABlaser]

I've especially hated when the klingons opened up their main disruptor banks while i'm sitting dead in the water because those damn tribbles ate my dililthium crystals.
Note to self: kill those tribbles and quit watching star trek.

warren,
did i miss something? When did we start calling "pain in the ass stalkers" as klingons.
I keep missing out on the cool stuff--need to start hanging out with the cool people again.
note to self: refresh myself with storm chasing dictionary

 

[Jason Boggs]

Klingon: People that "cling on" to you when you're chasing, and you want them to go away.

EDIT: Just my unofficial definition by the way.

 

[Shane Adams]

Sounds like hurricane chasing is beginning to get as popular as tornado chasing. It's simply the state of the game. Just another example of why I fly under the radar now.

 

[Jason Boggs]

This mutant breed multiplies rapidly; with their encouragement of and attracting groupies/Klingons to try to feed their tiny egos.

Now who said anything about trying to attract these types of people to feed their tiny egos?

From what I understood, Warren wasn't too enthused about these people being around. Maybe I didn't get it, but I believe that's where he was going when he started the post. I really don't believe he was trying to attract anyone.

 

[Johnathan Brouwer]

Decades ago these types of choices of technology was not readily available to the chasing community. Times change man, and much like the the early adapters of electricity were "ridiculed" for considering using such modern conveniences, the positives were proven to far out way the negatives. No matter how you choose to chase, it is up each one of us to operate in a manner that we consider "safe", and as we have just seen and will continue to see, that definition safety is continuously redefined as more and more people are drawn into our world.

For me, using GPS is one necessary tool that provides that safety. It gives me accurate positioning, it provides the situational awareness that the NWS uses to provide more accurate warning and forecasting to the public and it gives my nowcasters the ability to have additional eyes on me.

 

[Jay McCoy]

99.9% of John Q. Public has no clue about either SevereStudios or SpotterNet so I dont think its the general public we have to worry about showing up at our favorite spot during a hurricane or tornado. It is the novice chaser who has read ST or other wx sites and discovered SevereStudios or SpotterNet and decide to follow the more experienced. In most cases there isnt a big issue but some "novices" might act like Warren described or worse get themselves into a situation they are not prepared for. We cant control that. Thats their problem. What I can control is WHO sees my position. We have the option in Spotternet to allow only certain people to see our info. Just allow the NWS and certain friends see it and deny all others and problem solved. Just like when I am getting close to home I also go "inactive" beofre I get home so as to not give my exact house location. Do the same while chasing a hurricane. Keep it up until your in the general area then shut down and choose your exact spot. They wont know the exact building. Just the part of the city. Let them waste time searching.

We have always had the issue of Klingons and that will never change. Most times its no big deal but there are those few times you get either idiots or jerks. alowing the NWS to see your position is a great tool. Too bad a few will abuse that information.

 

[Rob Wadsworth]

Anyone can buy a GPS unit and hook it up to their laptop and go on the Spotter Network. What is to stop them? Responsibility?

If I saw quasi-chasers getting drunk in public, raising hell, and barking at the moon - I wouldn't hesitate to call local law enforcement and drop a dime on them. Look, if they go out on the road in that condition - maybe the public is better served by getting them off of the road and into the local pokey.

I don't see why someone didn't take the initiative to do what had to be done. After all, if you are a responsible chaser - then you are a responsible chaser. It's not like you are ratting them out, they had it coming for making the decision to get drunk in public in the first place. Do YOU want to be on the road with these drunk yahoos during a dangerous situation and allow others to be subject to their lack of public responsibility? THAT'S the REAL bottom line...

 

[Warren Faidley]

Just to clarify, it was NOT that I minded the other people around, the responsible chasers and I hung out and a had a good time looking at data, talking, joking etc. They were a great group and I met some really sharp chasers. I'm glad there are others around so we can watch each other's backs and share data.

The problem is with the locals and "one time" ambulance chasing types who show up to just yell and scream and hoot and throw beer bottles and mess with the police, etc., etc. The police lump us all together, no matter if you are a journalist, met. student, or a goofball from Bongolos. The police are on heightened alert mode and it does not take a lot to try their patience. You can be on the first chase of your life (we have all been there) and still behave in "responsible" manner. Nothing wrong with that. And yes, I spoke to one resident near Highway 90 after the storm who was monitoring a chaser tracking site (I don't know which one), although he was not out following anyone. I was advised by another chaser in the garage that several people in the garage were following GPS tracking.

As for the GPS, I think it's a great idea, for all the mentioned reasons, but it comes with a price, just like when VORTEX used to post their plan of the day on the Internet and they ended-up with a zillion Kingon Cruisers following them.

I started this thread for friendly and constructive discussion so maybe this situation can be avoided in the future. I think there are ways to use the GPS systems and still prevent an onslaught of people following the signals. The problem seems to be long periods of non-movement, where people can zero in on a location.

I actually do see a future where "chasers" are banned from coastal areas by local LEO's. Unlike tornado chasing over massive areas, coastal areas are limited and easier to manage.

I'll let you young whippersnappers figure it out as most of you have a lot more years left of chasing than I do.... lol. (I think I still have about 20?)

Warren

In Pensacola heading to the east coast.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Is there a Gulfport Louisiana or something? I'm confused. I don't get what was in Gulfport MS.

Why on Earth would a person have to see mention of a parking garage on an interview on tv to know it would be a good option? It's not rocket science.

And do people honestly need to use chaser tracking stuff to chase a hurricane? Finding structures in the path of the hurricane seems pretty straight forward. It doesn't seem confusing enough to need to follow those.

 

[Warren Faidley]

Is there a Gulfport Louisiana or something? I'm confused. I don't get what was in Gulfport MS.

Why on Earth would a person have to see mention of a parking garage on an interview on tv to know it would be a good option? It's not rocket science.

And do people honestly need to use chaser tracking stuff to chase a hurricane? Finding structures in the path of the hurricane seems pretty straight forward. It doesn't seem confusing enough to need to follow those.

A lot of people, including non-chasers from outside areas have no idea of "safe" locations, even though they are obvious to us. Very few non-chasers would venture into a potential surge area without some idea of a good location. Even TWC often notes in their broadcasts that they will not disclose the "exact" location of where they are bunkered down. I'm sure a few locals already know about such sites, but I'm not meeting as many locals as those who are getting outside information and heading there at the last moment when they discovered there is a "good" location. Others can chime in on this.

W.

 

[Rob Wadsworth]

"...As for the GPS, I think it's a great idea, for all the mentioned reasons, but it comes with a price, just like when VORTEX used to post their plan of the day on the Internet and they ended-up with a zillion Klinging Cruisers following them.." -Warren Faidley

Agreed.
Some storm trackers do make themselves visible, y'know - wit th geekey PVC tubing frames for their anemometers, three HAM antennas, and whatnot. If this is contributing to the Klingon problem; maybe it is time for a change. Perhaps storm chasers need to consider going to stealth mode. Do they REALLY need the PVC frame and the anemometer? Don't we get enough data with laptop tethering, so that we can roll without this 'obvious gear' that any local yahoo is instantly going to recognize and tag along? I think were are partially to blame for this condition - in effect.

How may people here from STORMTRACK were near Collyer KS on the 23rd of May and saw all of these PVC-topped vehicles draw too much local attention. Or were in one of them? The TIV was there as well - like blood at a shipwreck attracting sharks! I must have seen a thousand people and at LEAST four hundred vehicles converge. At least. If you were there; then you know. But only a minority of them were chasers, the rest were locals ATTRACTED by the obviousness of the PVC storm chasers. Is it possible for us to re-adapt to newer tech - it's not as though the NWS or local weather stations need our on-the-fly data collection. Heck, they make hand-held units for Td's, wind, temp, etc; are we logging this data and using it?!?

To sum, stealth may be the ONLY successful way to draw down attention to ourselves. That is, if we don't want to catch the flak and bad press - we need to change the strategy. Can we do 'stealth' and still be effective chasers?