Can you help identify this feature?

[Adam Boggs]

I was just putting together some of my storm chase web pages and ran across a feature I caught on one of them. I was wondering if someone could help me identify it. While the picture does not provide a good perspective on the rest of the storm, I saw this off the back of the storm in what looked like a band of clouds being sucked in. It was not directly under the updraft itself. The storm was back building, and I suppose it is possible that there was rapid new development above where this feature emerged that I could not see through the cloud base. There was rotation evident, though it's hard to see from the short video clip I took. The photo is taken looking southeast and the core of the storm is off the left of the image. Also evident in this storm were large "horizontal" circulations on the back as can be seen is some of the other images.

My hypothesis is that it is an incipient landspout or landspout funnel. Does this seem accurate? Any other possibilities? More pictures of the storm can be seen here:
http://www.aircrafter.org/boggs/stormchasing/2007-05-26

Thanks,
-Adam Boggs

 

[Steve Miller TX]

If it is rotating, then by definition, it is very likely a funnel cloud based on your description of this feature in relation to the storm, along with other similar features I've seen myself.

I wouldn't throw alot of doubt into it based on whether the updraft was directly over this feature. First, from the vantage point in the picture, I don't see how you could really see what was going on above it. Second, any storm with decent shear would have the updraft tilted away from it anyway. Third, an updraft can develop and explode rapidly in a matter of minutes...as you are driving closer to the base and losing the view overhead.

I wish I could have seen the video clip, but it would not load for me on that page. I saw that it was an *.avi file which are humongous. I'd suggest looking into other more compressed formats like *.wmv (windows media) or whatever you prefer. Heck, create a youtube account and load it to there...with a watermark of course

 

[Skip Talbot]

Hi Adam,

It definitely looks like an updraft lowering, probably under the updraft of one of the flanking line cells given your description of the storm and your location. I've seen rather sharp lowerings with some rotation in the them before. I think if the feature had a more well defined/broader shape, and closer to the core, it would probably be a classic wall cloud. Its difficult to say whether or not it is a funnel. I like to see a little more definition in a lowering when I call it a funnel, and of course intense rotation. Downward sloping clouds with some rotation I just call lowerings. On the other hand, I've seen ragged lowerings with tornadic circulations under them that have looked very similar to this (although they were under the main updraft). Landspouts typically don't have large lowerings under the base associated with them, too.

 

[Steve Miller TX]

But, here is an example of a ragged lowering with some rotation well away from the core. It would produce the Rock, KS tornado about 70 seconds later on 6/12/04 (unless you speed it up and reverse the image...then it can be anywhere, anytime!! lol!).

Even on video, the rotation of the ragged lowering wasn't all that impressive even zoomed-in. There was alot of rising motion into it. I'm just showing that sometimes, mother nature doesn't always follow the rules.

I also went back and looked at some video from June 13, 1998 that looked very similar to Adam's photo above...same angle and everything to the storm. The rotation was not strong or violent, but was organized within the cloud base attached to the ragged funnel-like lowering which was exhibiting some chaotic rotation. It would produce a tornado about 10-15 minutes later.

On the contrary, I've seen many more such features just fizzle and die with no fanfare. I do agree that Adam's photo certainly isn't indicative of a landspout type development.

 

[Skip Talbot]

Right, ragged lowerings could very well be tornadic. That's why you really have to see the rotation. There was more than "some" rotation in that tornado wasn't there? The tip of this lowering was rotating, but I wouldn't call it a funnel:

This ragged lowering did have tornadic circulations underneath it although the photo doesn't really show it:

 

[Steve Miller TX]

Right, ragged lowerings could very well be tornadic. That's why you really have to see the rotation. There was more than "some" rotation in that tornado wasn't there?

Well, sure, after it formed. LOL! But before then, the ragged lowering wasn't clearly exhibiting rotation even a minute before the tornado formed...at least from my vantage point. I wasn't calling it a funnel at that point in time, but definitely an area of suspicion because of the rising motions into it. Had I been underneath it, I'm sure I would have seen more rotation.

That is really my point I guess with your pics too. Many factors go into determining if something is or isn't a funnel. It comes down to personal judgement in many cases as well as your proximity and vantage point. I've been underneath a lowering like that before which had no rotation whatsoever, but to another spotter a couple of miles away, they called it in as a funnel. I've been in the opposite situation too where I was fooled.

So, Adam, I guess you are getting a big "well, it could be, but we can't tell for sure". A video clip would help.

 

[Benjamin Rock]

I too would be skidish about calling it a funnel. Definitely not the faster rotation I have seen in previous storms. However, its very impressive looking and one heck of a shot. Im on the fence with this one...

 

[Adam Boggs]

I wouldn't describe the rotation as "intense". It was similar to the swirls in the other photos in that gallery, except coming down from the cloud vertically... definitely rotating and a lot of motion, but it was still pretty large scale. You can kind of see the twistiness of the clouds in the photo. So possibly the beginnings of a wall cloud, given the scale?

It was so far from the downdraft though; I'm used to thinking about wall clouds as being right next to them. Though as you said, if it's under a lot of shear and backbuilding, the up and down drafts could be displaced quite a bit. I'll see if I can dig up a picture that provides more context.

After looking at some more photos of landspouts, I see what you mean, Skip. Most of them don't seem to have much of a feature at the cloud deck, and if they do it seems to be a lot more laminar and caused by the debris being lifted rather than the clouds dropping down. I would agree that it doesn't seem like a landspout.

Based on the comments so far, I'm inclined to think it was just a lowering beneath a new updraft with a lot of circular motion. Possibly a wall cloud, but not a funnel. If there was even a little dust on the ground it would give more clues, but I didn't see anything. It only lasted about 5 minutes before dissipating, which I guess could be seen as fairly persistent since some entire storms seem to come and go in that amount of time.

-Adam

 

[Nigel Bolton]

Similar types of cloud behaviour can be seen here in the UK on occasions. I have seen such formations along convergence zones in very slack wind fields, maybe along weak trough or frontal debris. In my part of the UK, (Devon), occasionally a 3 way sea breeze will inter-react with a light NE'y airflow and produce this type of formation.
A ragged funnel shaped cloud such as this is often called a 'Scudsucker' here in the UK.

N.

 

[Skip Talbot]

'Scudsucker'.

I like that. Very descriptive. I'll probably start using it myself.

 

[Nigel Bolton]

I like that. Very descriptive. I'll probably start using it myself.

Indeed. Its definition in the UK is:-

"Small short lived vortex sometimes seen within scud or stratus, normally below a developing shower or frontal boundary".

N.

 

[jeremy wilson]

I think its a sub-atomic vortex caused by the over-population of hedgehogs.

Seriously, looks and sounds like a funnel from the way you described it. On 5-29-04, we ended up on the west side of the Harper beast and consequently had horrible contrast(we followed the first nader to the northwest too far). As we were trying to catch up about five miles to the west of the main meso, I looked out my window at the flanking line and lo and behold there was a very skinny stringy tornado with pretty intense rotation at the ground. We were well removed from the updraft and I was shocked to see this. Anyone else remember this or have pics? Seems similar to the above "funnel".

 

[Dennis Dennison]

If it was rotating and coming down, I would go for a funnel cloud.

 

[cdcollura]

Good day all,

I would call it a funnel cloud (a large one) but video / eye-sight will definitely rule that out with confirmation of rotation, that's the key.

It could also be a shelf cloud (or even a wall cloud). Hard to say, unless you put it in motion.

For example, below is an example of a tornado which one would swear was a shelf cloud side-view based on still-photos, unless you saw the video and rotation ;-)

I have seen a similar "lowring" / just-plain tornado on May 25, 2008 near Lacrosse, Kansas ...

Above: Initial lowering (looks like a shelf cloud / gust front), but is actually a wall cloud.

Above: Ground circulation confirms it's a tornado.

Above: Close-up of same tornado.

 

[Brian Stertz]

Looks like a high LCL day and an updraft lowering to me. Seen this many times on the High Plains and it certainly bears watching as one of these did produce a thread like tornado on one occasion in the OK Panhandle for me. Was brief and fleeting but did somehow condensate down as a thread tornado.