Buying a new chase vehicle... thoughts?

[Mark Farnik]

Hey everybody
Well, I finally am in a good enough financial position to buy myself a new personal/chase vehicle. I decided that I wanted either a 4x4/AWD small suv or wagon with decent ground clearance, good gas mileage and proven brand reliability. The Subaru Outback meets all of those criteria with flying colors. I've been looking seriously for the last month or so and have narrowed the field down to two cars that I'm seriously considering attm.

Option #1 is a 2001 Subaru Outback Limited, 5-speed, black/silver two tone exterior with grey leather, side airbags, winter package with heated seats/mirrors/washer nozzles, dual moonroofs, 124k miles for $7900.

Option #2 is a 1998 Subaru Outback Limited, black/silver two tone exterior with grey leather, dual moonroofs, winter package with heated seats/mirrors/washer nozzles, 136k miles for $5900.

The pros with Option #1 is that it is the 2nd generation bodystyle(2000-2004), which I prefer over the 1st generation bodystyle (1995-1999), has 12k less miles, has side airbags, a more powerful engine, more fun to drive and better MPG with manual transmission and parts/aftermarket accessories are more readily accessible than for the 1st generation. The only snag with this car is the manual transmission, because I'm going to be moving up to Denver in 7 months and I'm pretty sure driving a manual around the Mile High City would prove be quite a rigourous workout.

The pros with Option #2 is that it has has the exact same features, save side airbags, as Option #1, has only 12k more miles and costs $2k less. It also has an auto transmission, which would be a lot less hassle to drive in Denver. The cons are that it's the 1st gen bodystyle and parts/aftermarket accessories are harder to come by, it has a less powerful engine and gets a couple mpg worse with the auto, but not enough to make a huge difference in the long run.

So I guess my question is... should I spend the extra money and get the newer one, even though it has a manual? Or should I buy the older one and save a couple grand??? I mean they're pretty much the exact same car, they're even the same exterior/interior color combo, have nearly identical option lists and the insurance would only be slightly more expensive for the '01 than the '98. I'm leaning towards the newer one because I like the bodystyle and also the fact that it has side airbags, but I'm unsure about whether driving a manual would be too much of a pain in the a** to drive in Denver to make up for the better driveability and slightly better gas mileage. Or maybe I should just suck it up and learn to deal with driving a stick in the big city. Thoughts, anyone?

 

[Brett Adair]

Option #2. Chasing in a manual tranny is not something most chasers want to do. I like manuals better, but not something I would chase in.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Wow, stuff is really priced that high with that many miles? I'd have a hard time spending 8k on 124k miles.

 

[Brandon Sullivan]

I would say 2 also...

 

[Jody Radzik]

My next vehicle:

http://www.suzukiauto.com/sr_08/sx4_crossover/

I'll keep the truck for more intense forest road excursions. As well as it has worked for chasing, I'd rather be in something a little more economical and nimble next season.

 

[Mark Farnik]

Yeah, I've given it some thought and decided against the one with the manual tranny. However, I just stumbled across a 2000 Outback Limited, identical to Option #1's color combo and options except for it has an auto instead of a manual. It has a much more palatable 93k miles and they're asking $9300. While approaching the top end of my $10k budget, I think I might just have to call on that one tomorrow.

Oh, and Mike, fwiw, Subaru's have EXTREMELY high resale values because of their excellent reliability and they extremely popular, especially here in Colorado. You can literally not drive ten miles in the majority of Colorado and not see a Subaru. My dad has one (a '92 Legacy AWD wagon) and he loves it to death. It's a great little car, has 235k miles and just keeps going and going. I have many friends with Subies, and if properly maintenanced they'll go at least 200k on the original motor/transmission, sometimes as much as 300k. The combo of all wheel drive, high 20's combined gas mileage, comfortable rides and bulletproof reliability has me sold on Subarus.

 

[Greg Campbell]

Well, you seem absolutely pre-determined to get a Subaru..... Good luck!
(Since you're asking, I think your $8K~10K would be much better spent on a CR-V, Rav4, etc.)

Just a though: Have you looked for hail damaged vehicles? You might score a significant discount, and save yourself some worry when chasing. (Not that you'd ever want to get comprehensively cored...)

If you're really stuck in gridlocked stop-and-go, a 5 speed can be a minor pain. Otherwise, it's not a problem. Driven sedately, a manual can squeeze a few more miles out of the tank.

Unless Subaru has issues with their sludge-o-matic transmissions, I think option 2 is the way to go. Spend the 2K you saved on tires, belts, hoses, etc. ANY vehicle with over 100K will be in need of maintenance.

A quick search shoes that Outbacks use a cam drive belt. Check to see if it has been changed lately - breaking one will trash most recently manufactured engines. I seem to remember the Gates timing belt site has a an application chart that lists which cars have interfering valves. Unless the seller can show the belt has been changed recently, plan on spending another $3~600 to have a shop install a new one.

 

[Andrew Pritchard]

Those all have mileages WAY above what I would be considering for a new chase vehicle. I set my limit at 75,000 when searching earlier this year.

I realize Subaru makes a heck of a car, but I can't see starting off with a car already that worn out. Like some have mentioned, the parts that make up the car are going to be very worn out by now and some are certainly going to need some replacing in the near future.

 

[Dustin Wilcox]

Why not just buying something new? I'll be car shopping here in a few months, after I wrap up my last semester and I figure I might as well wait until after I destroy my car this chase season, I don't plan on wasting any of my time looking at used vehicles. Why pay 15K with a 9% (if your lucky) interest rate for a used vehicle that is void of any warranty and about to nickel and dime you to death when you can go purchase the same car brand new for 25-30K at 0%, that way your car is under warranty, you start out with brand new tires, can care for the car the way you choose to from the start, ext.. and once its paid off you at least will still have something worth a little to put toward a new vehicle, if you start out with a used by the time your sick of that car and ready to upgrade again its probably going to earn you more cash at the salvage yard then as a trade in.

 

[Mark Farnik]

Greg -
There are a couple reasons why I'm not looking at either a Rav4/CR-V or a vehicle of similar ilk (Suzuki Grand Vitara, Kia Sportage etc). First of all, their 4 cylinders are drastically underpowered next to Subaru's Boxer 4 (120-130 hp vs 165 hp). Second, they don't have near as much cargo room as an Outback, between 4 and 10 less cubic feet, which doesn't sound like much but actually makes a huge difference in how much cargo you can carry. Third, both the CR-V/Rav-4 have stupid side hinged rear hatches, which hinder curbside access and are just a general pain in the a**. Fourth, while no stunning beauty queen, the Outback is a much more handsome vehicle than the cute utes, which are either overly boxy ( i.e. the CR-V) or overly cutesy (i.e. the Rav-4. ) About the only cute ute I would give consideration is the Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute twins, which are similar in terms of cargo space,ground clearance and have a more powerful 200 hp V6, but I'd be sacrificing quite a bit in terms of gas mileage (19/25 for the Escape/Tribute vs 22/29 for the Outback). And these days, that kind of a difference in fuel efficiency can really add up over the length of a chase season as well as in day to day driving.

Now I know there are some fellow ST'ers who are probably thinking 'Well if you're looking for gas mileage, why don't you get a Civic/Corolla/other pissant commuter car? There are several reasons for this. A, I don't fit very well in these cars. I'm 6'2", and having driven almost every one of the cars in this category, I find that I have very minimal headroom. I also find that they are NOT comfortable for trips any longer than two hours, let alone a marathon 1000 mile chase day. Also, I feel extremely vulnerable in these cars - I'd rather drive a slightly larger vehicle and sacrifice a few mpg than get better gas mileage and put my life on the line every time I get on the road. More than anything, though, most of them are NOT offered in wagon variants, and none of them (with the sole exception of the Suzuki Aerio and Subaru Impreza) offer all wheel drive.

Those are my two non-negotiable terms for my new daily driver/chase vehicle - it must be a wagon/crossover and it must be all wheel drive. The wagon/crossover reasoning is that I am a very active person, and a sedan's trunk doesn't cut it for what I haul around (photography equipment, camping equipment, you name it, I haul it).
Also, me being the budget minded fellow I am, I've elected to save the cost of a motel room and just sleep in my car when necessary. You just fold down the backseats of a wagon/crossover and you have an instant sleeping area. Can't say the same about a traditional sedan.
As far as the AWD goes, my parents have owned several FWD cars (a '97 Nissan Sentra, a '00 Chevy Malibu and currently an '02 VW Passat) and as I mentioned earlier, they currently own a '92 Legacy, which is AWD. Having driven all of these cars in various nasty conditions, even with full time traction control, the Passat absolutely pales in comparison to the Legacy in terms of mud/snow/ice capability and completely blows the other two out of the water. No, AWD isn't as capable as 4WD with a locking low range, and most of the time you don't really need it, but when you do, boy are you glad that you have it. I say that from experience.

APritchard -
I wish I had the luxury of buying a vehicle with lower miles. Believe me, I do. But I am about to start college, and Outbacks and other vehicles that meet my requirements with lower miles are WAY out of my price range at this point. After college, when I have a steady job and can afford a reasonable car payment, I will be getting a newer car with much lower miles. But right now, the only vehicles that meet my criteria and fall within my price range have between 80k and 140k miles. I am extremely conscious of the wear and tear issues, and I am only giving consideration to vehicles that have been well maintained and have at least partial, if not full service records. Yes, undoubtedly, with those kind of miles, things will need to be replaced. But if I get a vehicle like Option #2, which has near complete records and just had a major service (timing belt, water pump etc.) completed recently, as long as I keep up on the basic maintenance, then it should easily last me through the three years of college and four storm seasons (unless it gets caught in a flash flood, obliterated by basketball size hail or whirled away by a tornado somewhere in that time period, that is ).

 

[Jerry Prsha]

Hey everybody
Well, I finally am in a good enough financial position to buy myself a new personal/chase vehicle. I decided that I wanted either a 4x4/AWD small suv or wagon with decent ground clearance, good gas mileage and proven brand reliability. The Subaru Outback meets all of those criteria with flying colors. I've been looking seriously for the last month or so and have narrowed the field down to two cars that I'm seriously considering attm.

Option #1 is a 2001 Subaru Outback Limited, 5-speed, black/silver two tone exterior with grey leather, side airbags, winter package with heated seats/mirrors/washer nozzles, dual moonroofs, 124k miles for $7900.

Option #2 is a 1998 Subaru Outback Limited, black/silver two tone exterior with grey leather, dual moonroofs, winter package with heated seats/mirrors/washer nozzles, 136k miles for $5900.

The pros with Option #1 is that it is the 2nd generation bodystyle(2000-2004), which I prefer over the 1st generation bodystyle (1995-1999), has 12k less miles, has side airbags, a more powerful engine, more fun to drive and better MPG with manual transmission and parts/aftermarket accessories are more readily accessible than for the 1st generation. The only snag with this car is the manual transmission, because I'm going to be moving up to Denver in 7 months and I'm pretty sure driving a manual around the Mile High City would prove be quite a rigourous workout.

The pros with Option #2 is that it has has the exact same features, save side airbags, as Option #1, has only 12k more miles and costs $2k less. It also has an auto transmission, which would be a lot less hassle to drive in Denver. The cons are that it's the 1st gen bodystyle and parts/aftermarket accessories are harder to come by, it has a less powerful engine and gets a couple mpg worse with the auto, but not enough to make a huge difference in the long run.

So I guess my question is... should I spend the extra money and get the newer one, even though it has a manual? Or should I buy the older one and save a couple grand??? I mean they're pretty much the exact same car, they're even the same exterior/interior color combo, have nearly identical option lists and the insurance would only be slightly more expensive for the '01 than the '98. I'm leaning towards the newer one because I like the bodystyle and also the fact that it has side airbags, but I'm unsure about whether driving a manual would be too much of a pain in the a** to drive in Denver to make up for the better driveability and slightly better gas mileage. Or maybe I should just suck it up and learn to deal with driving a stick in the big city. Thoughts, anyone?

Here you go mark... A company who sells used armored Jeep Cherokee's and such. You don't need to worry about hail or debris and it's 4 wheel drive! heheh

http://www.alpineco.com/inventory/used/suvs.html

 

[Jason Foster]

I'll be checking them out

Here you go mark... A company who sells used armored Jeep Cherokee's and such. You don't need to worry about hail or debris and it's 4 wheel drive! heheh

http://www.alpineco.com/inventory/used/suvs.html

these folks are right around the corner from me, so I can check them out, test drive one or two, and see if they're worth it.

 

[John Gnuechtel]

I'd go with option 1 just because it's newer. I bought a WRX wagon just about a year ago and it's the best car I've ever had. For the price, Subes are tough to beat, even if they're older. One word of caution though: You might want to throw some mesh grating over the moon roofs before you chase.

Here's a really great Subaru resource: www.nasioc.com

 

[Mark Farnik]

Well, I decided to wait a few more weeks and look around, because I was a little nervous about the higher miles of both the options I was looking at... and low and behold, my patience has paid off!
I've found a 1997 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport on Craigslist. It has the 2.2 liter 4 cylinder and auto, 82k two owner miles, near complete maintenance records and brand new struts all around. It's dark blue/silver two tone with gray cloth and is in near immaculate condition. Its being sold private party, and the owner wants $6,000 or best offer, which is fair considering the excellent mechanical/body condition and and the low miles (less than 7,500 miles a year average over 11 years - how often do you find a vehicle that's been driven that lightly?)
At first I wasn't really looking at an Impreza because I thought they were too small, but we just got my mom a 2005 Saab 9-2x AWD (essentially a Subaru Impreza with a Saab front/rear end and a unique interior) and it's actually a pretty roomy car and can hold a surprising amount of cargo with the rear seats folded down.
It'll be a little more cramped in the back than I would like as far as sleeping in it (I'm cutting costs by sleeping in my car instead of motels on multi-day chases) but the 30+ mpg highway ecoonomy is MORE than a fair tradeoff. I'll just curl up into a semi-fetal posistion on my air mattress and it'll be all good.
I'm calling on it tonight, and hopefully I can go up to Denver this weekend and buy it. I'm excited!!!