CITY OF NEW ORLEANS THREAD

In my opinion the Mayor and Governor are the ones screwed this up in the first place. Here's my reasons why I believe this:
Mayor:
Not ordering a mandatory evacuation soon enough
Not sending buses around the city to pick up people who couldnt leave on their ow
Having the police do rescues instead of maintaining order. If you dont have civil order, it's harder to do rescues. Have firefighters, medics, coast guard, etc do rescues
Needed a lot more security presence inside the superdome
Governor:
Not mobilizing the national guard fast enough
Should have sent the state police into the city as soon as looting was heard of
 
In my opinion the Mayor and Governor are the ones screwed this up in the first place. Here's my reasons why I believe this:
Mayor:
Not ordering a mandatory evacuation soon enough
Not sending buses around the city to pick up people who couldnt leave on their ow
Having the police do rescues instead of maintaining order. If you dont have civil order, it's harder to do rescues. Have firefighters, medics, coast guard, etc do rescues
Needed a lot more security presence inside the superdome
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Chris,

He only had a limited number of police officers to "maintain" order. With a disaster of this magnitude, you CANNOT control a city with a limited police force. Remember, many of the cops in NO lost everythign that had as well. In addition, one NO cop said there were many cops who have drowned in the past few days. The mayor can control his police officers, but the police force is at 50% in most places -- hugely undermanned for a task of "controlling" the city. If he stopped doing rescues Monday evening to "maintain" order, people would be screaming that he isn't doing enough to save those on rooftops. He just CAN'T control the situation -- it's just too big. He needs thousands and thousands of Nat'l Guard.
 
In my opinion the Mayor and Governor are the ones screwed this up in the first place. Here's my reasons why I believe this:
Mayor:
Not ordering a mandatory evacuation soon enough
Not sending buses around the city to pick up people who couldnt leave on their ow
Having the police do rescues instead of maintaining order. If you dont have civil order, it's harder to do rescues. Have firefighters, medics, coast guard, etc do rescues
Needed a lot more security presence inside the superdome
Click to expand...

Chris,

He only had a limited number of police officers to "maintain" order. With a disaster of this magnitude, you CANNOT control a city with a limited police force. Remember, many of the cops in NO lost everythign that had as well. In addition, one NO cop said there were many cops who have drowned in the past few days. The mayor can control his police officers, but the police force is at 50% in most places -- hugely undermanned for a task of "controlling" the city. If he stopped doing rescues Monday evening to "maintain" order, people would be screaming that he isn't doing enough to save those on rooftops. He just CAN'T control the situation -- it's just too big. He needs thousands and thousands of Nat'l Guard.
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I guess you're right, Jeff. The blame game is just getting old, and I decided to put my 2 cents in.
 
Hmmmm....and who is to blame for that, someone won't be back in office.
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That's what he's afraid of. That's why he is going on the attack to pass the blame on to the federal government. He shouldn't have any problems convincing the people of New Orleans that he did a wonderful job, but it was "the man" who screwed them over. They'll re-elect him and call him a hero.

He'll be Governor in four years. :roll:
 
...

...yep, blaming "the man", "the great Satan" or whomever is a tried and true tactic of third world leaders desperate to shift blame for their own inadequacies.

Just today a BBC reporter said this was becoming less of a "man against nature" and more of a "man against man" situation, and said it was resembling Africa more than America.

Except this...

WWL-TV reports that doctors and nurses at Charity hospital are giving each other IVs to keep going.

I fully believe our (national) cavalry is coming. In Africa (where I can still see so many similarities in particular to Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of the Congo I mentioned elsewhere, and a former Sister City to New Orleans in the late 80s) they might never arrive.
 
Hmmmm....and who is to blame for that, someone won't be back in office.
Click to expand...
That's what he's afraid of. That's why he is going on the attack to pass the blame on to the federal government. He shouldn't have any problems convincing the people of New Orleans that he did a wonderful job, but it was "the man" who screwed them over. They'll re-elect him and call him a hero.

He'll be Governor in four years. :roll:
Click to expand...


There's plenty of blame to go around and let's not pretend that Bush had no role in contributing towards this (including moving 6,000 Louisiana National Guard [current number] into Iraq)...

"It appears that the money has been moved in the president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

-- Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; New Orleans Times-Picayune, June 8, 2004
 
Hmmmm....and who is to blame for that, someone won't be back in office.
Click to expand...
That's what he's afraid of. That's why he is going on the attack to pass the blame on to the federal government. He shouldn't have any problems convincing the people of New Orleans that he did a wonderful job, but it was "the man" who screwed them over. They'll re-elect him and call him a hero.

He'll be Governor in four years. :roll:
Click to expand...


There's plenty of blame to go around and let's not pretend that Bush had no role in contributing towards this (including moving 6,000 Louisiana National Guard [current number] into Iraq)...

"It appears that the money has been moved in the president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

-- Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; New Orleans Times-Picayune, June 8, 2004
Click to expand...

It's 3,000 troops, not 6000. There was an officer from the Army Corps of Engineers on TV today saying that the levees were complete. Let's try not to judge when we dont know the FACTS.
 
The mayor is emotionally distraught. In an interview with WWL radio yesterday, he was pretty much putting his foot down at the complete inept, in his eyes, of any ACTION being taken to save lives. He's frustrated, and rightly so, at the complete miscommunication, "talk" of resources, and the political "spin". The bottom line is, not enough is being done to save hundreds, if not THOUSANDS if lives in the entire southeast Louisana and MS coast region, and it finally reached a boiling point with Nagin. He has been in the streets, he has seen it. He just isn't in front of the camera like Anderson Cooper, Sheppard Smith, etc...
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The mayor is emotionally distraught because he knows if he goes down onto the streets of NO he'll probably get killed ... frustrated because he knows he screwed up ... boiling point because he knows he didn't do enough and he can't do anymore
 
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/0...flpc21109012015

Wow, look at all of them buses. Why didn't the "Mayor" use them buses to evacuate people who couldnt leave on their own? Not only does he order the mandatory evacuation too late, he doesnt dispatch what could have saved hundreds, if not thousands. Even if the bus drivers are already evacuated, other city employees could have drove them. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.
 
How are a few dozen buses expected to evacuate the 100,000-200,000 that remained? And where do you take them? What shelters were predesignated to handle these numbers?
 
Hmmmm....and who is to blame for that, someone won't be back in office.
Click to expand...
That's what he's afraid of. That's why he is going on the attack to pass the blame on to the federal government. He shouldn't have any problems convincing the people of New Orleans that he did a wonderful job, but it was "the man" who screwed them over. They'll re-elect him and call him a hero.

He'll be Governor in four years. :roll:
Click to expand...


There's plenty of blame to go around and let's not pretend that Bush had no role in contributing towards this (including moving 6,000 Louisiana National Guard [current number] into Iraq)...

"It appears that the money has been moved in the president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

-- Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; New Orleans Times-Picayune, June 8, 2004
Click to expand...

It's 3,000 troops, not 6000. There was an officer from the Army Corps of Engineers on TV today saying that the levees were complete. Let's try not to judge when we dont know the FACTS.
Click to expand...

===
WASHINGTON — The Pentagon said Wednesday that it will add 10,000 National Guard soldiers from around the country to areas of Louisiana and Mississippi ravaged by Hurricane Katrina. A combination of troop callups and recruiting problems has left the two states with fewer of their own troops to provide aid

More than 5,900 Guard soldiers from the two states, about a third of the total, are deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq

===
I guess I should have said 5,900 troops from the disaster area were not available instead of 6,000 (OK...I was off by 100).

As far as the levies are concerned, I tend to believe the emergency management officials who were making the request. I guess you could say that the levies were 'finished', but I think we can see why the emergency officials there thought there was additional work needed
 
There was an officer from the Army Corps of Engineers on TV today saying that the levees were complete. Let's try not to judge when we dont know the FACTS.
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Watching FOX all day probably isn't the best way to know the FACTS. Here is what a recent head of the Army Corps of Engineers said today as publiched by a reputable news source (Reuters):

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Bush administration funding cuts forced federal engineers to delay improvements on the levees, floodgates and pumping stations that failed to protect New Orleans from Hurricane Katrina's floodwaters, agency documents showed on Thursday.

The former head of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, the agency that handles the infrastructure of the nation's waterways, said the damage in New Orleans probably would have been much less extensive had flood-control efforts been fully funded over the years.

"Levees would have been higher, levees would have been bigger, there would have been other pumps put in," said Mike Parker, a former Mississippi congressman who headed the engineering agency from 2001 to 2002
 
I read that article too. Here's my problem with it. The cost of upgrading these levees to handle a cat 4 or 5 would have cost hundreds of millions, possibly billions of dollars. The article said the project was cut from 60 million to 10 million. The person who said that about the project being done was an Army Corps of Engineer general at a Pentagon press briefing. This disaster is decades in the making. Why werent the levees uprgaded earlier?
 
I read that article too. Here's my problem with it. The cost of upgrading these levees to handle a cat 4 or 5 would have cost hundreds of millions, possibly billions of dollars. The article said the project was cut from 60 million to 10 million. The person who said that about the project being done was an Army Corps of Engineer general at a Pentagon press briefing. This disaster is decades in the making. Why werent the levees uprgaded earlier?
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there was a project that wouldve sured up the levees and replace the wetlands to the south in 1998 at a cost of 14 billion. they plan was scrapped because it cost to much
 
I read that article too. Here's my problem with it. The cost of upgrading these levees to handle a cat 4 or 5 would have cost hundreds of millions, possibly billions of dollars. The article said the project was cut from 60 million to 10 million. The person who said that about the project being done was an Army Corps of Engineer general at a Pentagon press briefing. This disaster is decades in the making. Why werent the levees uprgaded earlier?
Click to expand...

there was a project that wouldve sured up the levees and replace the wetlands to the south in 1998 at a cost of 14 billion. they plan was scrapped because it cost to much
Click to expand...

And people expect a whole 60 million would've made a difference. I dont think so.
 
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Bush administration funding cuts forced federal engineers to delay improvements on the levees, floodgates and pumping stations that failed to protect New Orleans from Hurricane Katrina's floodwaters, agency documents showed on Thursday.

JFC Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush sr. and Clinton didnt do anything about it. what about them... lets dig up the dead ones and flog em......
There is nothing like a hurricane to bring out the bitch in people. Before Ivan was even over, people call the radio station wondering when there power is going to be back on. One stupid bitch called wanting to know when the stores will be open ,because she had 10 people, and they had no food or water.


When it come right down to the point. I am responsible for my own safty. I take care of myself.


ed
 
Do we need a congress and senate if the press maks all the decisions? Sounds to me like some of you would like a dictator.


ed
 
The history of the levees is irrelevant. What is relevant is that they were told to evacuate the city because the levees WOULD FAIL, as well as a multitude of other imminent disasters. None of this should have come as any surprise to Nagin or anybody else. He was given the facts, as was the general public, yet he chose to sit on his hands. And the photos of busses sitting parked in their yards is all the evidence we need to see that is exactly what happened.

Calling for the feds to bail you out AFTER you are in a hopeless condition is not effective leadership.

But I stand behind my prediction that he will be hailed by the citizens as a hero and re-elected.
 
The history of the levees is irrelevant. What is relevant is that they were told to evacuate the city because the levees WOULD FAIL, as well as a multitude of other imminent disasters. None of this should have come as any surprise to Nagin or anybody else. He was given the facts, as was the general public, yet he chose to sit on his hands. And the photos of busses sitting parked in their yards is all the evidence we need to see that is exactly what happened.

Calling for the feds to bail you out AFTER you are in a hopeless condition is not effective leadership.

But I stand behind my prediction that he will be hailed by the citizens as a hero and re-elected.
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Well lets see exaclty where he has been since sunday? i havent seen him on one TV interview and that makes me think hes not even in the city.
 
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