Silver Lining Tours vans rolled in Kansas

Jul 16, 2013
214
102
11
Joplin, MO
Bullseye! It's not so much the "money shot," but the "attention shot." Facebook in particular is seductive. I'm not a social-media person, but even I've been pulled in, checking in to see how many "likes" my photo has. It just sucks you in. The horse ain't goin' back in the barn.

What scares the bejeezus out of me is what happens when Warn-On Forecast becomes a reality. The NWS will be able to tell people there's a high probability that two or three specific counties will be under a Tornado Warning in 90 minutes. That gives all the spread-out chasers time to zero in on a particular spot, just as the locals are trying to flee. Am I overreacting?
Look up Simon Sinek on YouTube, especially topics involving Social Media. He discusses this exact issue exceptionally well, and having worked in IT for as long as I have, the past 5 in the educational setting, I agree 100% that Social Media is partially to blame for a lot of what we see today.
 

Jamie Winterstern

Enthusiast
May 22, 2019
7
8
1
Los Angeles
Look up Simon Sinek on YouTube, especially topics involving Social Media. He discusses this exact issue exceptionally well, and having worked in IT for as long as I have, the past 5 in the educational setting, I agree 100% that Social Media is partially to blame for a lot of what we see today.
Thank you for that gem of a recommendation. Just watched he's spiel on social media & he's brilliant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joey Ketcham
Jun 19, 2005
768
11
6
New Mexico
So with the update they got hit by a tornado that was on the ground for 8 miles before it rolled their van? I'm not sure that sounds any better
Yeah that makes it look like it wasn't a satellite, it was THE tornado.... It looks like where they thought the tornado was, was actually the next round of development.
 
Jan 31, 2017
59
31
11
Joplin, MO & Iowa City, IA
Look up Simon Sinek on YouTube, especially topics involving Social Media. He discusses this exact issue exceptionally well, and having worked in IT for as long as I have, the past 5 in the educational setting, I agree 100% that Social Media is partially to blame for a lot of what we see today.
Great speaker. Scary stuff! Friggin, scary stuff! Never heard it put so starkly before. So until young folks learn to build real relationships, they're going to try to get fulfillment from posting more and more storm videos to Facebook.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joey Ketcham
The only solution to this (which may or may not work) is for outlets like TWC, Accu-Wx, Facebook, Twitter, etc., to stop allowing people to post extreme footage where the subject(s) are endangering themselves, including those who are faking their reasoning for posting such footage. Soccer (football) in Europe stopped showing individuals who were storming the field and it worked to some degree. Related... selfies are killing a stunning a number of people:

 

Mark Blue

Staff member
Supporter
Feb 19, 2007
2,749
304
21
Colorado
Admin Note:

Just a quick note to remind any potential posters to stay on topic in this SLT incident thread. I moved 7 posts from the end of this thread into Introductory Weather & Chasing and created a new thread there, so the unrelated discussion may continue there. No one is in trouble, we just want the integrity of the SLT thread to remain intact.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and if any new developments occur we’ll be eager to discuss those.
 
Jan 16, 2009
528
424
21
Kansas City
Recent update by Topeka NWS has a second (or rather, first) track added to the survey for this event. I’m currently unable to pull up the Damage Assessment Toolkit, but I believe the last damage point of the track was the flipped van or close to it, and the amount of injuries may be attributed to the van flipping. I know this track was hypothesized by several members in this thread. Here’s the twitter post about it:
I have been saying along that they got hit by the tornado we drove through east of Overbrook on highway 56. We knew at the time that a weak tornado was close to us as I would think all would have known at that time. It showed decent rotation at the time but nothing that kept me from not driving carefully towards it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nick Nolte

Mark Jack

EF0
May 31, 2019
10
6
1
Westmoreland, KS
I'd be interested to see if they release a statement about the incident since the data has been released. I know they've released a statement after it initially happened but have they said anything lately? I checked their homepage and Twitter and didn't find anything.
 

Jamie Winterstern

Enthusiast
May 22, 2019
7
8
1
Los Angeles
Admin Note:

Just a quick note to remind any potential posters to stay on topic in this SLT incident thread. I moved 7 posts from the end of this thread into Introductory Weather & Chasing and created a new thread there, so the unrelated discussion may continue there. No one is in trouble, we just want the integrity of the SLT thread to remain intact.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and if any new developments occur we’ll be eager to discuss those.
Apologies, I'll take responsibility for that. I'll make my thoughts more pointed toward SLT & not my own. As I mentioned before, I believe there's a sense of entitlement in some chasing instances; when something as extreme as a tornado is occurring, judgement can & will slip. We strive to be our best always, but accidents happen & I agree with @Joey Ketcham that socially media is definitely a trigger.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mark Blue
Sep 25, 2006
267
58
11
Denver, CO
stormdig.com
Jon Davies updated his article in light of the track update from Topeka NWS A merger of two separate long-track tornadoes in northeast Kansas on May 28, 2019 ! The pano Jon constructed is revealing and contra the article is not a good look for SLT.

But also notice the advancing rain-filled RFD coming up from their south (center of the image) that unbeknownst to them contained a hidden and unreported tornado that no one yet knew about.

Most spotters and chasers are taught to stay southeast of northeastward-moving mesocyclones (areas of organized rotation in supercell storms) to stay safe. So, SLT thought they were doing the careful thing to head back south to Highway 56 and follow the primary mesocyclone from a safe distance.

Complaints and accusations online (Facebook, Storm Track, etc.) have focused on the question, "What was SLT even doing in the bear's cage?" Well, that question kind of misses the point when the room becomes dark and you don't even know an additional bear's cage is there after you're already steering clear of the main bear's cage that you know is behind you.
Not driving south into a dark core was precisely the lesson to be learned from the El Reno TWC rollover incident. You drive east or north into the rain/hail core if you must. Any experienced chaser knows the RFD core can contain 100+ mph winds or actually be a tornado, either of which will easily roll a high profile vehicle. And yet they drove south directly into it.

Two long track tornado paths merging is interesting but we had a whole load of people who wound up in the hospital because of an avoidable mistake. We need our highly-regarded chasers keeping focus on what matters most - safety. Not covering for each other.
 
Last edited:

Dan Robinson

WxLibrary Editor
Staff member
Jan 14, 2011
2,341
1,947
21
St. Louis
stormhighway.com
Does anyone have archived level 3 radar from this incident? That is, what they would have seen on BV/SRV in GrLevel3? I wonder if the second couplet was as apparent on there as it is on the Level 2 data.
 

K. Gentry

EF0
Apr 12, 2019
23
16
1
NC
No one to blame but themselves, and on top of that, it seems like a bad idea to have out there in lieu of the litigation about to come down on the hills/SLT.
Totally agree to the surprise that anyone outside of lawyers/insurance companies have been allowed to see the video, especially since there is potentially identifiable location information in the image (not the captions)...
...what were they doing with 4 vans on a 2 track road? How do you turn 4 vans around on that sort of road in a quick reaction? You don't.
FWIW, that image was taken from a cemetery with, what appears to be, a 'main road' on the left part of the image. So I doubt that they were actually using those non-maintained paths in a cemetery for travel, but rather probably just pulled off of the road temporarily. You're probably right that the other vans were right there behind, but it also can't be confirmed from a video-still image (as I'm not familiar with tour practices, I'm not sure; may have depended on the location).
 
Last edited:

K. Gentry

EF0
Apr 12, 2019
23
16
1
NC
Does anyone have archived level 3 radar from this incident? That is, what they would have seen on BV/SRV in GrLevel3? I wonder if the second couplet was as apparent on there as it is on the Level 2 data.
I don't have GR3, but here is a list of L3 data from TWX and EAX available on that evening (via UCAR THREDDS server):
Code:
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2320.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2319.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2317.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2315.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2314.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2312.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2311.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2309.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2308.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2306.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2304.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2302.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2301.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2259.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2258.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2256.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2255.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2253.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2251.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2250.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2248.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2247.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2245.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2243.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2242.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0Q_20190528_2240.nids

http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0Q_20190528_2321.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0Q_20190528_2319.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0Q_20190528_2314.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0Q_20190528_2309.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0Q_20190528_2304.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0Q_20190528_2259.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0Q_20190528_2254.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0Q_20190528_2249.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0Q/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0Q_20190528_2244.nids

http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2320.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2319.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2317.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2315.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2314.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2312.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2311.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2309.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2308.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2306.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2304.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2302.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2301.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2259.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2258.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2256.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2255.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2253.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2251.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2250.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2248.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2247.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0U_20190528_2245.nids

http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0U_20190528_2321.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0U_20190528_2319.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0U_20190528_2314.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0U_20190528_2309.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0U_20190528_2304.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0U_20190528_2259.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0U_20190528_2254.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0U_20190528_2249.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0U/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0U_20190528_2244.nids

http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0S_20190528_2325.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0S_20190528_2319.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0S_20190528_2312.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0S_20190528_2306.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0S_20190528_2259.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0S_20190528_2253.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0S_20190528_2247.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_N0S_20190528_2240.nids

http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0S_20190528_2327.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0S_20190528_2319.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0S_20190528_2314.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0S_20190528_2309.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0S_20190528_2304.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0S_20190528_2259.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0S_20190528_2254.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0S_20190528_2249.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/N0S/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_N0S_20190528_2244.nids

http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_NST_20190528_2325.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_NST_20190528_2319.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_NST_20190528_2312.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_NST_20190528_2306.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_NST_20190528_2259.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_NST_20190528_2253.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_NST_20190528_2247.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/TWX/20190528/Level3_TWX_NST_20190528_2240.nids

http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_NST_20190528_2327.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_NST_20190528_2319.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_NST_20190528_2314.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_NST_20190528_2309.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_NST_20190528_2304.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_NST_20190528_2259.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_NST_20190528_2254.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_NST_20190528_2249.nids
http://thredds.ucar.edu/thredds/fileServer/nexrad/level3/NST/EAX/20190528/Level3_EAX_NST_20190528_2244.nids
I got the URL lists via WCT. Can GR3 generate its own SRV? I included the NST (storm track) links if it needs them for the calculation. If you need NSS (Storm Structure), UCAR THREDDS apparently does not archive that. Hope it helps.
 
Jun 16, 2015
404
853
21
32
Oklahoma City, OK
quincyvagell.com
The more I watch and analyze this, in addition to commentary, radar analysis, etc. from others, the whole situation looks worse and worse. It wasn't as if a tornado came out of nowhere, but there was minutes of lead time. I can completely understand the vans driving north at the point in the second clip, but why did they not turn east? I thought I was darting east last minute when I did so, right at the time that they were driving back to the south, directly toward the rain-wrapped/filled circulation, which was confirmed as a tornado via NWS. I only wish I had a camera facing south or southwest, because I'm sure they just saw a rain-wrapped mess heading directly toward them, which I cannot fathom why a tour would drive directly into this. Photos and video are from my perspective during the event. Video link.
vans_00.jpg
vans_01.jpg
vans_02.jpg
 

Darren Lo

EF0
Feb 25, 2012
38
59
11
I downloaded the archived level 3 data from NOAA HAS and loaded it into GRLevel 3. It appears that the circulation was small enough that it is actually much harder to see in the level 3 feed -- this certainly gives me pause, since I rely on level 3 data while in the field. That being said, AllisonHouse now offers super-res Level 3 which might mitigate this issue -- I don't have any access to the archived super-res product.

Screenshots below with GRLevel 3 on the left, GR2Analyst on the right. I attempted to place the marker in the same spot in both applications. For GR2Analyst SRV, the storm motion vector was taken from the warning polygon.

slt_bv.png
slt_srv.png
 
Jun 19, 2005
768
11
6
New Mexico
Jon Davies updated his article in light of the track update from Topeka NWS A merger of two separate long-track tornadoes in northeast Kansas on May 28, 2019 ! The pano Jon constructed is revealing and contra the article is not a good look for SLT.



Not driving south into a dark core was precisely the lesson to be learned from the El Reno TWC rollover incident. You drive east or north into the rain/hail core if you must. Any experienced chaser knows the RFD core can contain 100+ mph winds or actually be a tornado, either of which will easily roll a high profile vehicle. And yet they drove south directly into it.

Two long track tornado paths merging is interesting but we had a whole load of people who wound up in the hospital because of an avoidable mistake. We need our highly-regarded chasers keeping focus on what matters most - safety. Not covering for each other.
Just because the damage paths cross doesn't mean there was a merger. It could be weakening tornado turns left, new strengthening tornado comes from behind. Just because they crossed spatially doesn't mean temporally.
 

Dan Robinson

WxLibrary Editor
Staff member
Jan 14, 2011
2,341
1,947
21
St. Louis
stormhighway.com
Maybe it was in a discussion within closed Facebook circles, but I've never heard of a generic RFD transect away from a tornado being such a high-risk maneuver other than the risk for strong crosswinds. Unless I missed something before, the tornado threat within RFD should be minimal. If I'm mistaken, someone educate me and point to me where this apparent common knowledge has been communicated either in high-profile statements by veterans or in research papers.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JeremyS
Sep 25, 2006
267
58
11
Denver, CO
stormdig.com
Maybe it was in a discussion within closed Facebook circles, but I've never heard of a generic RFD transect being such a high-risk maneuver other than the risk for strong crosswinds.
Damaging RFD winds are commonly identified in NWS damage surveys. Mother's Day 2014 cell featured a broad area of 110mph winds in the RFD and spun up an EF2 tornado in front of me while escaping east. Those escaping south had large utility poles fall on them. Crosswinds that strong at highway speed alone would be a high-risk situation in a top-heavy vehicle. El Reno 2013 what some thought was "only" RFD turned out to be tornado winds. When a dark rain-shrouded core is already surging across the highway directly south like that I don't consider it a viable escape route.
 
Last edited:
Sep 25, 2006
267
58
11
Denver, CO
stormdig.com
My experience in the field is that rain-filled RFD surges are often strong wind producers (apart from any nearby tornado), as with the 2013 El Reno tornadic storm where we nearly got blown off the road retreating south of the intensifying and rapidly expanding tornado.

I've seen a couple videos of chasers following the May 28 Lawrence-Linwood tornadic storm way too close, hooping and hollering while surrounded in blinding rain and seemingly oblivious to the danger near them. I used to do stupid stuff when I was younger 25-30 years ago, but experience and maturity in recent years has taught me to give these storms a very wide berth, even if it sacrifices the chance to view a large tornado. I fear that more chasers will get killed in future years on HP-type storms of this nature.
Excerpt from A violent tornado close to home: The May 28, 2019 EF4 Lawrence-Linwood, Kansas tornado
 
Jan 16, 2009
528
424
21
Kansas City
Does anyone have archived level 3 radar from this incident? That is, what they would have seen on BV/SRV in GrLevel3? I wonder if the second couplet was as apparent on there as it is on the Level 2 data.
I am at work but I might have something at home ... I will look tonight. I usually take screenshots of Radar Scope when I am very close to rotation.
 

Mark Blue

Staff member
Supporter
Feb 19, 2007
2,749
304
21
Colorado
That being said, AllisonHouse now offers super-res Level 3 which might mitigate this issue -- I don't have any access to the archived super-res product.
For interested parties, I checked with Gilbert at AH to see if they had a 30 day archive of the super-res GRL3 data and they do not. He indicated they don’t because they already have the super-res level two data for all available tilts. So this leaves RS with a Tier 2 subscription (for super-res level 2 data) or a NOAA server that would store it for public consumption. I only have a Tier 1 subscription and the last part would only be known by certain members like Jeff or Rob. I’m sure there are others who know but I bombed out at AH.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Steve Miller
My "drive-by" post Tuesday relying on Mr. Vagell's video was trying to get at this. As I understand it the RFD isn't a dynamic by-product of a tornado. Rather it's my understanding that it's an important part of the dynamic mechanisms that concentrate a tornadic vortex and pin it to ground. If indeed there is a powerful RFD evident, spatially displaced from the current meso and following a more easterly vector, then one would expect the existing circulation to be translated or replaced southward. I don't think it's giving Roger and SLT the credit I think they deserve for not putting themselves so close under the current circulation as to get whacked by a "satellite" tornado. FWIW.